Mattis, left, and Mexico Defense Secretary Salvador Cienfuegos, center, in Mexico City yesterday. Mattis, left, and Mexico Defense Secretary Salvador Cienfuegos, center, in Mexico City yesterday.

Trump official says MX on verge of collapse

But Mexico's foreign affairs secretary disputes it

Mexico is on the verge of collapse and represents instability for the southern border of the United States, said President Donald Trump’s chief of staff according to a report Thursday by the New York Times.

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But the report was disputed by Mexican Foreign Affairs Secretary Luis Videgaray.

The newspaper reported that John Kelly offered the analysis during a working dinner Wednesday at the White House and likened Mexico to Venezuela under the regime of its former president, Hugo Chávez. The report was based on information provided by two people familiar with the exchange, one of whom was in the room.

They said Kelly made a passionate call for stouter border defenses and offered his general support to a stronger barrier while giving a pessimistic view on Mexico’s security situation and political stability.

Videgaray disputed the report in an interview with Reuters.

“We’ve spoken to the White House and they have confirmed General Kelly did not make at any moment comments of that nature,” said Videgaray.

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“It would be clearly contrary to everything that we have heard and know of General Kelly in these past months,” he added.

The U.S. defense secretary indicated yesterday during a trip to Mexico that he did not share the view that Mexico was on the brink of collapse. Asked whether he thought so he replied with a terse, “No,” Reuters reported.

Jim Mattis said he aimed to build trust and show respect for Mexico during his visit, intended to strengthen military ties between the two countries.

While military ties remain strong, Mexicans’ views about their northern neighbor are not positive. About two-thirds of Mexicans regard the U.S. unfavorably, according to a Pew Research Center poll released this week.

The visit by Mattis and two senior military officials was timed to coincide with independence celebrations. It is the first time a U.S. defense secretary has attended.

Source: The New York Times (en), El Universal (sp), Reuters (en)

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  • BUCEPHALUS

    Verge of collapse? Sounds more like the U.S. than Mexico.

    • ss

      Wake up. Mexico is a narco state. Nieto, governors, mayors, police and Generals are all on the cartels payroll. Just cartels carving up the pie.

      • Geoffrey Rogg

        At least some recognizes reality.

        • BUCEPHALUS

          I recognize the reality as well. I also recognize the ridiculousness of one corrupt government calling another corrupt government corrupt.

      • BUCEPHALUS

        And the difference is what? The members of the Unites States Congress are all on the payroll as well. Pharmaceutical, Oil, Agribussiness, Chemical and a whole litany of others all keep these folks in line doing their bidding. Police departments acting as revenue collectors for state and local governments. Massive lobbies for Defense Contractors buying top military and Pentagon officials loyalty. The list is endless. I’ll tell you what the difference is. One is done under the table, i.e. The cartel way. And the other, is done in the open or behind closed doors while wearing a nice three piece suit. I’m awake alright. Are you?

        • michael

          Another wacko for Trump. you do know that posting here we now have your address and know where you live. Yea we do. Tonight the black helicopters fly to take you away. The end is near. Resistance is futile. Plus your microwave has a two way microphone.

          • BUCEPHALUS

            Whacko for Trump? I fail to understand how you came to that conclusion. I’ve had this same opinion about government since the early 1970s. When the helos come, please ask them to bring me a barril of Negro Modelo and a 3 liter bottle of Don Ramon Ropasado. I’m running low.

          • michael

            1970s? Maybe it is time to realize that what you believed in the 1970s that the sky is falling is not going to happen. How long can one believe in something and hold on to that belief before accepting reality that it won’t and didn’t happen. There were and are some conservative Americans who have called for the end of the world int he USA since 2008—they said the FED, Obama,etc policies would bring down the country. They look pretty foolish today. You are standing at the train station and the train has come and gone. You can still believe what you want but you look a little foolish saying anything from the 1970s about the US government is true and this or that will happen. Trump is trying his hardest to prove me wrong and you right I might add however.

          • BUCEPHALUS

            Again, I am afraid you have taken my statements the wrong way. I stated that corruption is rampant among our elected officials in the U.S. They take money, bribes if you will from any and every interest group around. This has been happening for decades. My original comment was alluding to the fact that those that call Mexico a corrupt government had better look internally first. Re read my statement. I happen to think obama pulled off some pretty amazing accomplishments. Brought the country back from the Great Bush Recession and the economic strength felt today is his legacy not Trump’s. The Trump Economy will start being felt in about six months, in addition, I in no way shape or form support Trump or any of his self enriching policies. The man has hired the wrong person for every cabinet job. Unqualified, incompetent and put in place to destroy, not advance each agency the head. Again, if my comments came off in support of the current regime, that was not my intent. Good day sir.

          • michael

            The problem with cynicism is it is always right. Corruption? There is no comparison between the USA and Mexico. If you call US congressmen and women taking money from lobbyist as bribes then, what can I say. The money is reported. If you say no Congressperson can take money then only the rich will be able to run for office and we both know that MONEY makes a difference. If you buy enough ads saying your opponent is a crook, people will believe it after awhile. In Mexico, I live here, it is petty bribery and theft. Notice all the house windows with bars, there is a reason. The local police are crooked for the most part. The building and zoning commissions in Mexican towns are pretty much crooked. Of course one man’s bribery is another man’s normal way of doing business. In both countries and it is all about money….it does make the world go round I hear. Stop blaming Trump and start blaming his followers. these are the uneducated, intolerant losers. These are old white folks who wan to return to an America of 1962, before segregation and the women’s movement. This is bout 30% of the population of the USA. And half of those are bigots and don’t care if you think so. I have rambled on. Good day.

    • It surely does.

  • Cam Nante

    Is Kelly thinking about invading to ensure stability? He must be getting advice from Henry Kissinger….

  • Realista

    Both countries are runned by the same Shadow Government and yes both are on the verge of collapse. However, Mexico will not allow foreign military intervention when the new president is in place unless he is following the same political stance as Enrique Peña Nieto alias the Village Idiot. With the CIA, DEA, and ATF running rampant inside of Mexico is more than enough.

    • Beau

      There are rumors about the imminent closing of the northern borders….for weeks now.

      • David Procter

        Would you kindly post “ONE” reference to your assertion? Thanks!

        • Beau

          Read John Kelly comments on The Hill and TheDC

          • David Procter

            You did not respond to the request. Show me ONE reference about “closing of the northern borders”, or kindly SHUT UP! You are doing you fellow countrymen a disservice by spreading lies. You ought to know better. Are you a responsible adult?

          • Beau

            Are you that stupid, sir? read the John Kelly article on the Hill from Sept 15th if you’d like. Other than refer you to that article and the follow up on the TheDC- I have nothing else to show you. Mexico is in bad shape and probably closing the borders—- in the event of a collapse— is not such a bad idea. And yes, I’m a very responsible adult.

          • rangerrandy

            Eagerly awaiting D. Procters incisive response to your answer answer. (Trump humour)

          • David Procter

            Wait a minute. YOU made the claim “about the imminent closing of the northern borders.” So YOU provide the reference. If you don’t you are a cheap, chiseling LIAR, just like Trump. You made the claim, now back it up. I don’t have to look up anything; YOU made the claim, and YOU are a LIAR! There are NO rumors about the closing of the northern borders. You access the article and quote the EXACT passage. Don’t forget to reference it with an Internet address. Come on. do it and stop avoiding responsibilities for your LIES.

      • Dallas Autery Y Rocio Heredia

        good one. lol

        • Beau

          I read comments made by WH staffers regarding John Kelly opinion about Mexico and its imminent collapse. Don’t kill the messenger.

  • From South of the Border

    This is typical second hand and third hand hearsay not something heard directly in public. I’d ignore hearsay and look at Mexico and know that it is far from any such disaster happening. This is the type of “YELLOW JOURNALISM” typical of scandal sheets not real news reporting. I chuckled when I read this complete bullshit from start to finish!!

  • ratbag

    I think one benefit of Trump’s ugly rhetoric on Mexicans and threats to kill NAFTA has been that the Mexicans have realized they cannot rely on the US.

    They have reached out to other nations in Asia, Latin America and the EU for trade. They will do well to isolate the US and increase trading relations with others until Trump is gone.

    • GEORGE JAMES

      I AGREE, SOON THE U.S WON’T BE THE ONLY GAME IN TOWN,
      I THINK MEXICO SHOULD PUT ON THE OTHER SHOE. OPEN DIPLOMATIC RELATIONS

      WITH NORTH KOREA. DISCUSS MISSILE INSTALLATIONS. AMERICANS ARE ALREADY PARANOID.
      STEP UP THE FEAR QUOTIENT.

    • Geoffrey Rogg

      He’s going nowhere until he finishes what he set out to do.

  • Geoffrey Rogg

    Anti -Trump fools dispute his views. I am a Mexican permanent resident who has worked all over the Republic and fluent in Mexican Spanish. I worked for a Mexican owned industrial corporation working closely with state owned entities. I can tell you with absolute certainty that the Mexican Federal authority has little or no control of the Republic which has regressed into a multiplicity of fiefdoms. I do not expect the average ex-pat to acknowledge this reality because it does not conform to their flawed political views. The State Department knows the real state of affairs as I do.

    • michael

      Yawn Geoffrey. Wake me when the end comes, until that carry on and stiff upper lip Brit. Why can’t the Brits play football is what you should post on.

      • Geoffrey Rogg

        Football American or British is for sissies. Rugby is for real men without those zombie helmets and shoulder pads. Americans never have nor ever will understand anything other than their own Yankee Doodle Dandy Apple Pie culture.

        • michael

          Hot apple pie and a strong spot of tea is about all you Brits will have after BREXIT. Soon Scotland the brave goes and then orange Ireland and maybe OMG Wales Wake me when the Mexican collapse happens. At one time to think the sun never set on Great Britain. Oh well, you still have Benny Hill.

          • Geoffrey Rogg

            The EU will implode and BREXIT will be followed by several others. Those who do not defend their culture will lose it. I came to the US as a legal immigrant and there can be no exceptions for anyone but the legal path to citizenship. England and America are one. The trouble with America is that it has let the carpet baggers and towel heads infiltrate whereas the U.K. decided to maintain its sovereignty. Mexico lost its sovereignty and culture five hundred years ago but will recover it which is why no Federal Government will ever be able to rule tha country.

          • michael

            Mr Rogg, just so I can keep you honest, pray tell, give me a date when this holocaust happens in Mexico. I don’t need a day, hour, minute, just a year or month. Since you seem to know Mexico and foreign policy, more than I do I am sure you can be specific. In cards, assuming you play, this is called “calling your hand.” Are you a waging man? Perhaps we can put a quid or two on the events? Or perhaps no money you can make arrangements for me, assuming you bloody dead wrong like I think you are, at a Puerto Vallarta swanky, I love swanky, hotel. A suite would be rubbing it in, but a nice room with a view of ocean. I will toast you with a young Mexican woman. I will pay for that.

          • Geoffrey Rogg

            Michael, I believe you don’t understand where I am coming from. Sykes-Picot were babes in the wood compared with what was done to central and south America by Spain and Portugal and their cursed church as a result of which perpetual instability is the heritage handed down to those who still have a significant native or mestizo population. The holocaust was already committed five hundred years go.

          • michael

            Correct, the Spanish, more so than the Portuguese, were brutal toward the native population. That was 500 years ago. The problems in Mexico and other Latin American countries TODAY is not native vs Spanish conqueror, it is economic systems. Mexico will go on, stumbling and bumbling into he future. Mexico will not fall apart anytime soon. Now, if Obrador wins the election in 2018 then we are talking troubles. There is perpetual instability in most countries of some sort, even say Estonia. Now if you want dysfunctional countries you need to look to some of those former European colonies in Africa. Mexicans are the efficient Swiss compared to most of Africa. Corruption is an art form in Africa. Again Mexicans are saints compared to MOST of Africa. Geoffrey, tranquillo, Mexico survives. The drug cartels are bad businessmen. And finally, unless and until the Mexican people want an end to the drug cartels they will continue. Unfortunately too people benefit from drug money especially in the drug culture cities.

          • Geoffrey Rogg

            To the Irish it’s the battle of the Boyle, to the Jews it was the destruction of the Temple and exile, to the Spanish it was the Reconquista, to the Native Americans it was the treachery of the white invaders, etc., etc., etc., one should never underestimate how events of centuries or millennia past impact on present day situations. This is a common mistake of Americans who cannot understand this fundamental truth. After India Mexico has probably the most entrenched cast society in the world. If it was simply a case of economic development then their troubles could have been solved already, but that is not the case nor will it be solved that way. National loyalty or pride does not exist except when or if Mexico wins the World or Americas Cup in soccer. Loyalty is to family first and to the nation state last and this is not going to change anytime in our lifetime.

    • tigre bengala

      You’re a maquila worker huh?

      • Geoffrey Rogg

        Nope, they are poor payers and are corruption ridden.

        • tigre bengala

          They screw both countries, leave the u.s. w/o jobs, hey bring them here

  • Dallas Autery Y Rocio Heredia

    so was it Kelly or Mattis that said it? the article is unclear on that.

  • WestCoastHwy

    Obvious, this is Trump selling the wall rhetoric.

  • Like most people above the Rio Bravo, Kelly’s take on Mexico is way off base.

  • Mike S

    This story is total nonsense. It amazes my how few Trumpeteers recognize just how fortune we are to have Mx as a southern neighbor. We not only have had peace on that border for 150 years (and the one war we did have was a blatant land grab by the US), Mx and the Mexican people have played a huge role in our prosperity and economic development. There are 3 main spheres of economic competition in the world: Euro-zone, Asia led by China & Japan, and NAFTA. We have been leading the pack but that could end if Trump continues trying to promote his bigotry and destroying NAFTA.

    • Geoffrey Rogg

      Ask Mexican workers and SME’s what they think of NEFTA. Another Clinton deal.

      • Mike S

        Agreed that wages and working conditions for Mexican workers needs improving. That’s a job for unions and the government to tackle. Without NAFTA both countries would be far worse off in a very competitive world. The brain stem with an orange comb over we have for president should be calling for higher wages and better benefits for workers in both countries. He should be addressing the obscene wealth disparity in both countries. Canada , US, and Mexico with 500 million people should integrate their economies even more and pull together to compete with Asia and the Euro-zone. US has great science/innovation/engineering/ business talents; Canada has some of that plus enormous natural resources; Mexico has a large willing work-force plus natural resources and tremendous tourism.

      • Actually, NAFTA was negotiated under Bush and NAFTA has NOT been a good deal for manufacturers. Maquiladoras had a much better deal with Mexico before NAFTA. Ask any Maquiladora trade association and they will say they don’t like NAFTA and it is not for the reasons you may think. Importing raw materials into Mexico became more expensive and complicated under NAFTA than before when manufacturers could import raw materials from any country without IVA and without duty conditioned on the export of the final product, instead of just the 3 NAFTA partners. NAFTA with its conflict resolution and arbitration elements gave legal certainty to NAFTA partners doing business with another of the NAFTA partners and opened the previously closed Mexican market to the US and Canada. All the tariffs eliminated were eliminated by Mexico. Withdrawing from NAFTA will affect US agriculture more than any other sector. Of course with the new agreements Mexico has made with Argentina, Brazil, Chile, Israel and Japan the agricultural sector in the US is going to be the big loser. Instead of selling 18 billion in agricultural products, they are going to be sharing that market with other countries. The US is no longer the center of the Universe – GM and Ford sold more cars in China last year than in the US. Mexico can ship beef to Japan duty free and US beef exporters (mostly from Texas) pay 39% duty to Japan. Those are the initial direct effects of Trump’s threats.

  • richardgrabman

    Look at Kelly’s background. He came to the White House from Southcom… which traces back to US control of the Panama Canal, and was more or less obsolete after WWII, only reactivated and beefed up when the US administrations became concerned with the “pink tide” of Latin American politics… specifically a less-than-“obedient” Venezuela. Southcom and Kelly have been of the mind that US “allies” should act as proxies or auxiliaries in US military ventures,

    There is no reason for Mexico to be an “ally” in US ventures (remember there was an attempt to get Mexico… at the time a member of the UN Security Council… to assist the US-British-Spanish invasion of Iraq (like Mexico, a major oil exporter with a weak military), but thankfully, neither the government nor the people had any interest in taking part. Since then, especially under the Obama Administration (with no resistance from the Peña Nieot Administration) has been infiltrating US agents into Mexico, and expecting Mexican military forces to both tamp down domestic violence, and to prevent migrants from Central America from passing through this country on their way to the United States.

    What Kelley is saying is that the expected winner in next year’s presidential election is unlikely to play ball as the US military would like. He is pushing for a more repressive Mexico … a continuation of the failed “War on (some) drug (exporters, but not other)s”, with more sales of repression technology and equipment. And, continued oil sales to foreign (i.e.) US corporations.

    He’s selling more US intervention to US policy makers, and we’d be right to call him out on it.

  • Commander Barkfeather

    For clarity’s sake, this conversation took place at the working dinner with Trump, Rep. Nancy Pelosi, and Sen. Chuck Schumer, where the three of them allegedly hammered out the agreement on DACA. During the conversation Trump solicited Gen. Kelly’s opinions and that’s when the statement was made. Either Pelosi or Schumer can confirm the events, but neither, as yet, has done so. Sources: The Hill, Washington Examiner. General Kelly is not prone to making arbitrary statements. I cannot explain the lack of coverage for this obviously provocative opinion. IMHO, the only scenario for Mexico’s collapse would be if the PRI were to return to power after next year’s election. People will only stand for so much.

  • gypsyken

    It’s hardly surprising that a general who’s a member of the monster’s administration would also be a jingoist.

  • DeplorableVI

    Denial is the surest path to failure.

  • cooncats

    You guys are carrying on a raging debate over fake out of context news from the New York Times. That’s pretty amusing. Gives several of you the opportunity for your thoroughly stupid and boring TDS rants however, so carry on!

  • rangerrandy

    silly people? no need for insults …professor.

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