Senator Preciado presenting his proposal in early October. Senator Preciado presented his proposal in early October.

‘Cavemen had clubs, Mexicans should too’

Gun control debated as Senator pushes his proposal to ease regulations on carrying arms

The pros and cons of gun control were debated this week at an event organized by a Senator who last month proposed a constitutional change that would permit the carrying of firearms.

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National Action Party (PAN) lawmaker Jorge Luis Preciado wants to modify the 10th article of the constitution so as to allow weapons to be carried in vehicles or kept on business premises to allow people to defend themselves against criminals.

Various national and international experts, representatives of non-governmental organizations and media figures debated the issue in Mexico City yesterday, defending the proposal on self-defense grounds or panning it as a trigger for more violence.

American crime specialist John Lott said that homes without guns are more vulnerable to criminal attacks.

As an example he offered the United Kingdom, where 59% of home robberies occur when homeowners are present, compared to the U.S., where that figure drops to just 13% “because thieves fear being shot at.”

Francisco Rivas, president of the National Citizen’s Watchdog, had a different opinion.

Rivas used as an example the state of Sinaloa, where the highest numbers of homicides in its history were reported in August and September. In nine out of 10 cases, he said, a firearm was used.

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Such crimes do not always involve members of organized crime, Rivas said, as many cases escalated from a misdemeanor or an argument between neighbors to a homicide.

“I do not want to live in an armed and violent Mexico. What we strive for is to eliminate that same violence, because by opening the door to carrying firearms we’re looking for more confrontations,” he said.

Organizations that support the Senator’s proposal countered Riva’s position by asserting that the federal and state governments have failed in guaranteeing security, so all Mexicans should have the right to counter aggression that could endanger them or their families.

“Let it be said clearly: having a license to carry weapons doesn’t mean we’re going out to kill somebody,” said Raymundo Moreno of the pro-gun group Armed Mexico.

Actor Eric del Castillo said the only option left for the people of Mexico is self-defense.

“I do not want violence, I want defense. Cavemen had their clubs to defend themselves, and we should have one, too,” added the actor, father of actress Kate del Castillo, who claims she is being persecuted by the Mexican state for her ties with drug lord Joaquín “El Chapo” Guzmán.

“Peace means respect for the guns of others,” said del Castillo, paraphrasing 19th-century politician and ex-president Benito Juárez, adding bluntly that if the students of Ayotzinapa (victims of violence in Iguala, Guerro, in 2014) had been carrying, they wouldn’t have gone missing.

In contrast, actor Sergio Mayer said it was absurd to think that an assault could be avoided with a gun.

“Driver’s permits are issued yet people don’t know how to drive, and so they commit the worst aberrations on the streets. Imagine the same, but with a gun.”

After Preciado unveiled his proposal last month, Institutional Revolutionary Party Deputies countered with a bill calling for harsher penalties for carrying firearms or explosives, while Preciado’s party responded by saying the Senator’s proposal did not represent the PAN’s official position.

Another PAN Senator said the security of citizens was an obligation of the state.

Source: Reforma (sp)

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  • Güerito

    The PAN Party would be stupid not to embrace this initiative. It could very well become a sleeper issue in the 2018 Presidential election.

    • Anti-abortion and pro-gun? I hope Mexicans have sufficient sense to spot this contradiction.

      • awillikers

        being pro gun is a life saver.. yours and your loved ones – no contradiction

        • No, guns do not save lives. You’ve been watching too much television.
          Gun nuts are an embarrassment to the human race.

          • awillikers

            Ignorance and the inability to think is the embarrassment. You flatter yourself with undeserved praise and spout childish nonsense.

          • David L. Allison

            Says ‘awillikeres’ the coward who does not even have a profile to disclose and make his comments like a little boy with little hands and great desires who hides behind the tree in the playground to shout his attacks and challenges to the other boys and girls. You are apparently an alt-right gringo with a message of propaganda that does not sit well with the rest of North America.

          • awillikers

            You live in the fantasy,world of a name calling 4 year old. You are the sort of fascist that makes arming yourself necessary. Read the Dec of Independence. I know it’s a big boy job, but keep at it.

          • David L. Allison

            Oops, gotgcha, huh. No response but more attacks from the crybaby hiding his true identity behind the tree of anonymity.

          • David L. Allison

            And you are an embarrassment to both the USA and real conservatives everywhere. He need not flatter himself, his integrity is obvious to folks not blinded by absurd ideology such as yours.

          • “Ignorance and the inability to think is the embarrassment”. Indeed. That is why gun nuts are an embarrassment to the human race.

        • Happygirl

          I am a Canadian and we do not have the gun violence that the USA has, it is rare event to have a mass shooting, the number of children shooting friends or family members is miniscule…the love for guns is non-existent. Guns are acceptable for hunters and the police. We view guns as a life taker. A strong, honest, effective police force and judicial system is only what is necessary to combat the criminal elements in society.

        • David L. Allison

          Your NRA Trumpista alt-right comments are simple lies as demonstrated by actual facts and data. Repeating your lies will not turn them into truth. You are just not as good as Trump is at doing it.

      • Güerito

        You don’t pay much attention to what’s going in Mexico, do you?

        • As I wrote earlier, gun nuts are an embarrassment to the human race. It doesn’t matter which country they live in.

          • Güerito

            Q.E.D.

        • David L. Allison

          Of course roberb7 has paid attention. He recognizes the attempted invasion of alt-right propaganda from the gun crazy theocratic gringos. He is fighting for stability and justice in Mexico that is obviously missing in today’s USA.

          Folks who live in Mexico, like native Mexicans, Canadians and expats from all over the world, know that the US has failed to enforce the gun laws because of NRA propagandists funded by gun manufacturers. We have logic, facts and data on our side and will reject the alt-right neo-cons and Trumpista lies being dumped on us from the USA.

          • Henry Wilson

            you talk a tough game. waiting for you to try and act on it. suggestion. bring something more impressive than your big mouth. and your mama’s computer.

          • David L. Allison

            You should use a picture of yourself for your avatar though pictures of ugly Americans are not all that popular or persuasive. You embarrass yourself, the Mexican flag and the Mexican people with your gringo propaganda. You have no facts nor data to back up your lies about guns propagated by the NRA/gun industry cabal.

      • David L. Allison

        Do not be surprised at the contradictions of the alt-right propaganda being delivered wholesale from the gringos in the USA into Mexico right now. They have discovered that Mexicans and Central and South Americans understand English and have decided to invade from the north as the Spanish invaded from the East. We all remember how that turned out for the folks who lived here at the time.

        • Henry Wilson

          and dont ever forget it.

          • David L. Allison

            Ah, we shall remember and defend against your invasion in person and online.

    • Güerito

      Yesterday, Saturday Nov. 19th, thousands marched in Tamaulipas is support of PAN Sen. Preciado’s proposal for private gun ownership. Several local elected officials took part in the march, along with representaves from PAN, PRI, Morena, MC and PT parties:

      http://expreso.press/2016/11/20/exigen-autorizacion-para-el-uso-de-armas/

    • David L. Allison

      So you join the right wing anonymous NRA supporters with made up names and no real history to try to bring the same level of firearm deaths to families in Mexico as you have generated in the USA? Shame on all of you who have the audacity to promote your ugly pro-gun propaganda.

      • Henry Wilson

        how much does being a shill for the mexican government pay these days? just wondering.

        • David L. Allison

          I am pleased to work for and support the people of Mexico for free. They are the government and do not need guns to petition their elected officials for reform.

          Any alt-right buffoon who supports Trump’s policies has no room to attack either any other government or the people who support it.

  • Henry Wilson

    the highest homicide rate in the world belongs to latin america, about on a par with africa; both of which nearly unanimously prohibit and outlaw private possession of firearms…guaranteeing that the law abiding public of course are defenseless sheep against the corrupt governments and criminals who of course have all of the guns. the first thing a totalitarian government does when it takes power, as did the victors of the revolution in mexico in the 1920s?yep…disarm the public. hey you cant have people walking around ready to defend their human and property rights against the cops, the military and other criminals now can you? good luck senator but that is an issue your government will never budge on. it would be suicidal for them to do so.

    • AM

      Lawmakers should definitely consider the proposition, but as long as there is a demand from junkie scabs there will always be a supplier.

      • Henry Wilson

        never said there would not but at least the mexicans should have the right to defend selves, families and property which at the present time they do not. but it will never happen. the corrupt criminal government has more to fear from an armed citizenry than their mafia overlords.

        • David L. Allison

          You have no facts to support your verbal suppurations and no basis for your NRA gringo opinions.

          • Henry Wilson

            i do know however a numbnut gringo comment when I read one. get lost.

          • David L. Allison

            As you hide behind your tree of anonymity like a grade school bully shouting insults at the other kids, you even embarrass yourself more than your US mafia and millionaire Senators and Representatives in the US and by mentioning them, you embarrass them for having such cowardly buffoons challenging them.

    • David L. Allison

      You talk a lot and post a lot but have no friends and no followers online. Don’t you think that those two failures in support for your opinions and arguments have a lot to do with the failures in your arguments and positions, like this one. You sound like a gun obsessed gringo who wants no one to even know anything about you except that you like to say and post silly and unfounded things. It leads one to wonder if you are one of Trumps’ Macedonian anonymous posting machines.

      • Henry Wilson

        You don’t like me? Your friends don’t like me? How will I ever sleep tonight? (BTW…how old are you? I think I hear your mama calling for you to do the kitchen dishes.)

        • David L. Allison

          Child-like you whine out: “You’re rubber and I’m glue I’ve got guns and you should too.” Yes, yours is the clear, though not convincing, typical voice of the NRA, gun industry and the alt-right.

  • gypsyken

    Has Mexico had mass shootings like those in Aurora, Blacksburg, Newtown, and Orlando? No? Then its laws should certainly be modified so that it can catch up with the U.S. Data, by the way, show conclusively that the presence of a gun in a home makes its occupants not safer, but more at risk of being shot. But who cares about facts when opinion and ideology are more attractive?

    • The mass shootings in the U.S. and lack of them in Mexico has far less to do with the availability of guns than with cultural differences.

      • gypsyken

        The increasing availability of guns in Mexico, largely brought in from the U.S. where they are freely available, has made a difference in the crimes that are committed. I began spending at least half of each year in Mexico in 1993-94. There were crimes against property in those days, but the robbers didn’t have guns. Now they do, and they shoot people with them.

        • Happygirl

          The USA is the gun supplier for Canadian criminals too…in Ontario it is a real problem with hand guns (the number one choice of the drug industry) being smuggled across the border. Canada and Mexico need strong penalties against gun smugglers – like, life in prison with no chance for parole.

      • David L. Allison

        I agree with you on most issues but facts and data back up the contention that private possession of firearms increases deaths from firearms, primarily in the home and among close friends, associates and family.

    • Alas, gypseyken, we now live in a post-truth society.

    • awillikers

      Sorry your facts and logic are wrong.

      • David L. Allison

        Boy, you Trumpsters from Breitbart really know how to argue. You just deny facts and use skewed ‘logic’ by repeating lies over and over until you get people to believe you.

        • Henry Wilson

          we learned from the best…goofballs such as you.

          • David L. Allison

            Ah, no. ‘Henry’: Those are lessons you obviously learned from Breitbart, Fox, the fat drug addict and their cabal of made up ‘facts’ and fairy stories. You have learned your lessons well…all for nothing. The NRA and Trumpistas are even now failing even before the inauguration.

            The gun industry is now without their ability to promote gun sales by lying about the intent of moderate presidents to ‘take away their guns’. Now they have to try to invade Mexico with their lies and propaganda, like yours, to rebuild their sales. You and they are failing and will fail.

  • kallen

    “I do not want to live in an armed and violent Mexico…” Sorry, but Mexico is way past violent. Mexico has nothing to lose at this point in allowing firearms to be lawfully carried by citizens.

  • Estaben Calabacas

    Every other jackwagon in Mexico has a firearm or two. Why can’t the law abiding citizens and shopkeepers have a way to defend themselves???

  • “I do not want to live in an armed and violent Mexico.”

    I almost fell off my chair, laughing, when I read this. Where does Rivas think he lives now?

    Currently, about 99% of the bad guys in Mexico are armed. Bet on it. Restricting legal gun sales does nothing except keep arms out of the hands of the good guys. Me, for instance.

    Look at the U.S. Take Chicago, for instance, which has some of the strongest gun-control laws in the nation. It also has one of the highest rates of gun violence. Having the right to carry decreases violence. No-brainer.

    • Gun nuts are an embarrassment to the human race.

    • David L. Allison

      Would you, the real you, (not your made up name and avatar?), be a bit of a libertarian. I enjoy your posts even when I disagree with you. I am one of those left wing folks you complain about so much but do appreciate a neutral goblin spitting equally on all sides of the political divide.

      • Made-up name and avatar? Yes, the name is made up, but I’ve been using it for about a decade now, and consider it an alter ego. Sometimes I don’t know who is who.

        The avatar, the photo, however, is my bona fide, old, handsome self. Nothing fake about it. My wife took the shot.

  • Trym Skallevold

    Just imagine having US police conditions in México… “oh, I feared for my life so I had to shoot this unarmed teen in the back” … Mexican police are bad enough as it is , no need to escalate the situation further. Fu@king gringos and their guns. With guns more widely available, more people are in danger of being fatally wounded or killed. Why is that concept so hard for USAians to grasp? Want to see a so called developing third world country – look no further than the US Midwest and South.

  • awillikers

    The State has done a great job providing security, hasn’t it? When the state fails it is the God given right and duty of citizens to take the responsibility on themselves since it is ultimately the citizen’s fate.that is at stake.

    • David L. Allison

      You Breitbart babies have done enough damage to North America without bringing your Trump insanity to Mexico. Go home, stay home and take your right wing gun worshiping BS with you.

      • Henry Wilson

        waiting for you personally to make the first effort to carry out the threat. wont hold my breath.

        • David L. Allison

          No threat there, lefties don’t do that Threats just come from alt-right bullies fronting for the NRA, the gun industry and the Trumpistas. My comment was simply a request that all of you racist, xenophobic babies go home and stay out of the lives of people from Mexico.

  • Güerito

    Yesterday, Saturday Nov. 19th, thousands marched in the state of Tamaulipas in support of PAN Sen. Preciado’s proposal. Several local elected officials took part in the march, along with representaves from PAN, PRI, Morena, MC and PT parties:

    http://expreso.press/2016/11/20/exigen-autorizacion-para-el-uso-de-armas/

    • David L. Allison

      The citizens are upset and angry with the failure of the governments of the federal and state officials to enforce existing laws. Rather than make the situation worse by adding more firearms to the mix in the country, the governments could enforce the existing laws on possession of firearms and control the importation of guns from the USA that seems to be supplying guns, legally and illegally, to the entire world.

      • Henry Wilson

        notice to all: a paranoid schizophrenic anti american goof is loose and rampaging through this website. approach with extreme caution.

        • David L. Allison

          You missed it again as you hide behind your little tree of anonymity hurling threats and calling names in your attempt to hide the fact that you are little more than a gun industry troll barking at the others in the comment school yard who are smarter than you. If you want anti-American, look at the alt-right, Fox, the druggie fat man radio who keeps losing advertisers and the buffoons being put into the Trump/Pence anti-constitution cabinet.

          • Henry Wilson

            i threaten no one, but also never walk away when someone threatens me. anytime anywhere.

  • David L. Allison

    DANGER!!! NRA and American Enterprise Institute (The Koch Brothers) come to Mexico: John Richard Lott, Jr. (born May 8, 1958) is an American economist, political commentator, and gun rights advocate.[1][2][3] Lott was formerly employed at various academic institutions including the University of Chicago, Yale University, the Wharton School of the University of Pennsylvania, and the University of Maryland, College Park, and at the American Enterprise Institute conservative think tank. As of 2016, he is a columnist for FoxNews.com and the president of the Crime Prevention Research Center, a nonprofit he founded in 2013.[4] Lott holds a Ph.D. in economics from UCLA.

    • Henry Wilson

      perfect illustration what the abuse of drugs can do to the already brain dead. sad. pathetic.

      • David L. Allison

        Sorry, Henry: Your attacks and name calling about people and issues that you clearly know nothing about demonstrate the failure of the gun industry and NRA to debate using facts and data.

        I am sorry for the physical, emotional and psychological injuries you and Rush Limpaw have suffered from your apparent addictions but I encourage you to continue your talk therapy, as twisted as it may be.

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