Senator Martínez: border should be redrawn. Senator Martínez: border should be redrawn.

‘Mexico must reclaim land stolen by US’

Senator presents engineer's report confirming 85,000 hectares belong to Mexico

An engineer’s report confirming that 85,000 hectares of United States territory actually belongs to Mexico has renewed calls to reclaim the lost land.

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Chihuahua Senator Patricio Martínez, who has long asserted that the border was incorrectly marked too far to the south, lodged the report with the Senate this week.

The report was authored by Chihuahua engineering firm Portillo y Young, whose study of the issue found that the border was incorrectly marked along 436 kilometers of the shared boundary.

The border near Ciudad Juárez, Chihuahua, and El Paso, Texas, is cited as having a 1.5-kilometer discrepancy over a distance of 50 kilometers, adding up to 8,000 lost hectares. In other words, land in New Mexico should actually be in Chihuahua.

Similar irregularities were identified between Sonora and Arizona.

Martínez condemned a statement by the president of the International Boundary and Water Commission that the border was correct, despite contrary evidence in the report.

“With this expert report we are demonstrating that the border is incorrect. There is an absurd attempt to hide or ignore the existence of these differences and the worst thing is it comes from the commission charged with caring for and protecting national territory limits so that they are not moved, changed or relocated,” he argued.

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The former Chihuahua governor urged the Secretariat of Foreign Affairs to continue diplomatic steps initiated by former president Porfirio Díaz in 1897, saying that it’s time for the federal government to demand that the United States comply with territorial treaties to the letter of the law.

Mexico ceded half of its territory under the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo in 1848 in exchange for US $15 million and gave up further territory — parts of current day Arizona and New Mexico — as a consequence of the Gadsden Purchase in 1853.

In March, a prominent politician and a lawyer questioned the validity of the 1848 accord.

Martínez stressed that Mexico must send a diplomatic note to Washington in order for border limits to be rectified according to the treaties.

If U.S. President Donald Trump refuses, he favors seeking intervention in the International Court of Justice in The Hague.

He also told Senate President Pablo Escudero that whether the building of President Trump’s promised border wall is imminent or not, it is essential that the border be in the right place.

“We can’t declare the lands lost, they’re stolen, taken away from our national territory and we have to take them back now.”

Source: Crónica (sp)

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  • Jose Yates

    Only the dopey Mexicans pull stunts like this, and worse, waste their time with an unfriendly administration. Maybe Obama would have gone along but he’s gone now thank God. Imagine if Russia demanded we give them back Alaska. Or if Spain demanded Florida back now that we drained it and invented air conditioning. Imagine if the French were demanding we return New Orleans or the Dutch petitioning for the return of New Amesterdam. Nope, only the Mexicans agitate and aim their racist hostile nasty attitude to the Great Gringo. It must be sad to be Mexican.

    I wonder if it would be cheaper to build our new wall further south, just north of Mexico City where the land bridge from the gulf to the pacific is only a few hundred miles? Maybe it’s time for border relocation.

    • ricky

      SAYS THE GUY NAMED JOSE LOL..

      • Anthony Stein

        Dickhead uses five different names!

    • Anthony Stein

      First thing the Mexicans should do is to deport your ugly gringo ass across that border and build their own wall to keep out f…k head gringos like you out!…viva Mexico! Fuera los pinche gringos!

      • Jose Yates

        I’m not going anywhere.

        • Anthony Stein

          Maybe one day a dopey young Mexican will put you out of your misery! Then one way or another you can go back across the border to the land of the great gringo!

          • Jose Yates

            All the violence is a real problem in Mexico. You should advacate for respect and dignity aimed at the Mexican people rather than guns. No one hates poor Mexicans more than rich Mexicans.

          • Anthony Stein

            Says the gun crazy gringos from the north!

    • Patrick

      Wow Yates, talk about racist — you surely fit that description and your silly and un-educated examples are truly making you a very sad person….. Though I don’t hold with the possible idea of returning land that was stolen as a bigger parcel than what is being suggested be returned as a now smaller parcel is not without merit — if an engineering mistake was made and the boundary marked wrong, then there is some legitimacy to the demand — in your silly examples there are no questions as to where the boundaries were marked that is what makes your examples so ignorant as examples. However, Mexican law does prescribe that if in good faith a person (entity/institution) comes in possession of land that was not rightfully and legal to have ownership transferred, the land must be returned to the lawful owner BUT the lawful owner can take possession of the land as it was at the time it was illegally passed to another owner — any improvements to the land must then be paid by the legal owner before taking possession of the land…. So what should also be done in addition to ascertaining the correct boundaries is to assess the present value and improvements to establish the monetary payment Mexico must make in order to have it returned….. I suspect the idea will be dropped at which point the U.S. will be in a position to suggest to Mexico that an agreement be drafted that forever the land in question is deeded to the US.

    • It’s great to be Mexican, José

      ¿José?

    • Peter Maiz

      Yates, the lands you mentioned were sold by the Europeans. As in Mexico, you pulled the same little stunt with Spain’s last colonial bastion. The Maine blew a boiler and of, course, the Spaniards did it. That game the American empire Cuba, the Philippines, Puerto Rico and I believe Guam. You’re like a bully that always pick on the weak. (Irak and Afghanistan come to mind). But now they call it neocolonialism. It’s almost embarrassing to have to answer to people that are uneducated like you, or vastly uneducated or the unread. Unfortunately Yates you need a very good college to develop analytical and critical thinking, with all due respect.

  • K. Chris C.

    Picking a fight with the most belligerent and murderous nation existing can only be propaganda. Regardless, Mexico will have to wait until the US tyranny first gives up their occupations of Iraq, Afghanistan, Germany, etc.

    An American citizen, not US subject.

    • Quick, Chris! Get out the back door! The men in the white suits are just around the corner and coming fast!

      • RHG

        I am sure Chris is packing his bags right now to leave the US, which he finds so objectionable. You know like all the Mexican citizens protesting in the streets of America, flying the Mexican flag and claiming to be “Proud Mexicans” and then fight tooth and nail to stay in the US when a possible deportation issue arises.

    • dwpittelli

      Would you please provide an example or two of a more benevolent hegemon?

  • Greg Thompson

    Return the land your corrupt government stolen from your indigenous people first.

    • W. Jones Jordan

      I gather you’re addressing the U.S. government, which has now shown that even the presidency can be purchased. There was no war of extermination in Mexico and indigenous communities exist all over the Republic–not ‘reservations’–and with schools teaching in native languages-

      • cooncats

        Actually since the losing side spent twice as the winning side, what has now been shown is that if your candidate is totally corrupt and inept, even outspending the other guys isn’t enough.

        https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2016/2016/11/09/another-way-trumps-bid-changed-politics/93565370/

        There was no extermination of the indigenous population in Mexico?

        “There is consensus that the sixteenth-century was a demographic disaster for Mesoamericans. Table 2 displays ten authoritative estimates of population decline for the native population of “Mexico” (or diverse parts thereof) during the first century of Spanish conquest and colonization. Estimates of the magnitude of the disaster ranges from less than twenty-five percent to more than ninety. Three schools or interpretations cluster along this broad band of figures: catastrophists, moderates and minimalists. Catastrophists place the scale of demographic disaster at 90% or more and descry a large native population at contact, exceeding ten, twenty or even thirty million. Moderates detect decreases of “only” 50-85%—disasters nonetheless. ”

        https://users.pop.umn.edu/~rmccaa/mxpoprev/cambridg3.htm

        • W. Jones Jordan

          There was indeed a colapse of the indigenous population, but this was largely due to smallpox, not the sort of intentional extermination of the population practiced in the United States well into the 19th century, where the ‘battle’ of Wounded Knee was a simple massacre and ‘the only good indian is a dead indian’ —

          • cooncats

            Incorrect again, the same reason most of the indigenous died in Mexico was also true north of the border. Disease. The Spanish worked and starved many to death and many north of the border died from malnutrition and starvation. The actual kill rates in both areas were not that far apart.

            The reality is the indigenous population all over North America never had a chance mainly because of disease and abuse. You fall into the common emotional trap of liberals in trying to project events that involved some thousands of deaths into the disease events which killed millions indiscriminately.

            BTW, history is littered with conquest and death events. White Europeans were no different in this regard than previous actions by other races. They were better at it just because of the general advance of human technology.

            http://americanhistory.oxfordre.com/view/10.1093/acrefore/9780199329175.001.0001/acrefore-9780199329175-e-3

          • mike2000917

            You are right about the smallpox and other diseases killing many American Indians. Those diseases were the actual cause of population loss in Mexico and in the future USA. There were no significant mass murder events in the US territories.

      • Greg Thompson

        not addressesing the US gov’t……Mexican gov’t……what is the mex Govt doing to better the lives of the indigenous communities in Mexico they steal and sell ejido lands. They do nothing for the poor people in Mexico.

  • W. Jones Jordan

    The World Court ruled (c. 1900) tht the Chamizal, cut off from Mexico by a switch in the border river was rightfully Mexican territory–but the US paid no attention for almost 50 years, and then returned only a portion. So don’t anyone hold your breath.

    • dwpittelli

      The World Court didn’t exist. It was the International Boundary and Water Commission in 1910, the land in question totaled less than a square mile, and territories were moved in both directions (it was not a one-sided affair).

      • W. Jones Jordan

        I stand corrected as to the International Boundary and Water Commission which ruled, in 1910 that the disputed tract lying between the riverbed, as surveyed in 1852, and the middle of the river in 1864 would become United States territory and the remainder of the tract become part of Mexico.
        Despite the ruling, the dispute was not formally settled for half a century, in 1964, when the United States and Mexico ratified a treaty that generally followed the 1911 arbitration recommendations.

        The Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo and the Treaty of 1884 both specified that the middle of Rio Grande was the border. Under the doctrine of international law, when changes in the course of a boundary river are caused by a deposit of alluvium, the boundary changes with the river, but when changes are due to avulsion, the old channel remains the boundary.

        The river shifted south between 1852 and 1868, with the most radical shift following a flood in 1864. By 1873 the river had moved approximately 600 acres (2.4 km2), cutting-off land that was in effect made United States territory. In 1899, both countries dug a channel across the heel of the horseshoe bend of the river at the dispute site for flood control purpose.
        This moved a 385-acre tract of land to the U.S. side of the river, but as man-made alterations do not change the boundary, this tract of land was an island belonging to Mexico inside U.S. territory, and the U.S. gradually assumed control.

        In 1910 Mexico and the United States agreed to have the dispute settled by the International Boundary and Water Commission. The tribunal recommended that part of the disputed tract lying between the riverbed, as surveyed in 1852, and the middle of the river in 1864 would become United States territory and the remainder of the tract become part of Mexico.

  • Efrain Medina

    Return all stolen land ASAP

  • Peter Maiz

    Patrcio made his fortune as governor of Chihuahua. Furthermore, he is known for an explosive temperament. Give Mexico 20 years and we will have “occupied the lost territories, despite Trump.

    • Jason Lewis

      Unfortunately, more Mexicans aren’t as up front as you are. Well at least not in public. Most whites have their heads in the sand won’t see what’s coming till it’s too late. I wish they knew how much people like you hate them.

    • cooncats

      The land belongs to those who take it and hold it. The white population of America and Europe are birth controlling, aborting and degenerating themselves out of existence. Nature abhors a vacuum.

      • juan

        you must be high… of course the brown [people or the black people or the yellow people or the mmmm what other color can we find that are innocent victims of the white man.
        please get a grip on reality. Yes the world is changing but it has been forever! but no one ever got “restitution said” for things (like slavery) they never suffered

        • cooncats

          Come and get it genius. Don’t look now but your problem is your hopeless corrupt countrymen, not anyone else. Stop being victims and take your country away from the political thieves who are looting it.

          You didn’t even understand what I wrote, either. Get someone to help you with it.

          • juan

            if i misunderstood ur message then so did you. Don’t like my country leave it and go back to yours. You assume because of my name I am mexican I am not. I am an American probably more so than you having fought in several conflicts in the Armed Forces. But that is OK. I believe if you follow the laws of MY country, learn English which is the oficial language in MY country, and follow the proper procedures to become an American then good for you and us. On the other hand if you want to get a free ride, create another country, mexico or any other for that matter, because you somehow think you are entitled to MY tax money because of some perceived idea the we, today, in the US owe you something then you need to go back to your country and stay there. See how that goes for you. Not you cooncats. As you apparently also are an American and not an Illegal. or legal. I was born in the USA

    • mike2000917

      Sorry , but you are dreaming. The shabby run down country of Mexico won’t be occupying anything outside of it’s borders. It’s economic refugees will be in the USA mowing our lawns and cleaning our tables but not much else.

      • Peter Maiz

        So why does Mexico than have the 15th largest GNP in the world. Look up my family in wikipedia, the Creel-Terrazas family. Of course, Mike if you want to replace one of my maids cleaning my toilets, I might take you up on it.

        • juan

          to peter corncob
          they are high (15th largest GNP, but it stays with the rich) because of all the corruption involved. see who has all the money, not the poor mexicans, and there is a lot, who do not share on the graft, bribery and corruption factors (recently Mexico was named number one corrupt country in Latin America BTW) whenever they stop that maybe they will get a chance at being second world country.

          • peter maiz

            To Juan: as always, we find xenophobic animals in this site. To be brief, two of my ancestors fought in the Revolutionary War, see Creel-Terrazas family in wiki. You American mercenaries are all the trash of the world, having no college education to speak of (compare that I and 3 other members were educated at Princeton). We Mexicans are against corruption, here and in the U.S. I am a Mexican living in Mexico and take it for granted, my English is not only superior to yours, but my Spanish is fluent, whereas you are a person that is monolingual, owing to the fact that you probably crept out of a trashcan, and your ancestors, whatever trashcan they came from. If you think there is no corruption in the U.S., why are there about 40,000 lobbyists working in Washington? Also, our GNP is part of a new substantive middle class. You have your “poor” too. Whereas Mexico has a tragic class of very poor people, you have a substantial portion of your population living below the acceptable poverty level. And as to you having been in the armed forces, you are nothing more than a paid killer. Quite a profession, I must say. So what did your trashy parents do for a living? My dad was an M.D. and enjoyed the fruits of 67,000 acres of cattle land. Which, of course, means that my family wouldn’t give your kin the “time of day”. Now contemplate this: I, as a Mexican handle your language, in all probability, better than you! How very sad.

          • juan

            It sways befuddles me that people like you, rich-born with a silver spoon indoor mouth want to rule the worlds you think you live in. Mercenary? I bet you are just another traitor to your family name, fought in the civil war? doubt it your family probably carried water for the officers there at wherever you think they may have been. I also live in Mexico but do not pretend to be a “highly educated” left wing idiot. Good riddance you are no longer in the US.
            As fr speaking Spanish, I don’t ‘think’ my Spanish and english are good I “know” they are better than yours. You come from the very people that stole Mexicans from heir heritage. and for your knowledge, doubt they covered it in whatever rich kid school you came from, the yo are a bastard, a criollo that stole, yes, stole the land, riches of the Mexican Indians. your simple comment about being or having a pedigree, just a like a dog that you seem to be, shows how ignorant you really are just because you went to a rich kid school.
            You have what you have because of the “mercenaries that your family were. They probably stole money and killed Mexicans and others to enrich your pedigree. Yes the land belongs to who can keep it and right now you appear to be siding with the stealing of American Territory. What your family will eventually claim it for yourselves? Stay in Mexico. You probably could not make it anywhere else you little sniveling rich bastardo criollo snowflake

  • Memo to Mexico: Good luck with this.

  • Efrain Medina

    Return all stolen land ASAP.

  • Ken Carter

    Good luck with that. Maybe we will be celebrating another cinco di Mayo soon, but don’t hold your breath.

  • Jungle Cat

    Let them have the land We have already screwed up this country anyway. Plus the Mexicans are mostly occupying that area anyway.. The rest of the USA is supporting them…

  • Pogo

    I was hoping to see a map with the disputed vs current border(s) outlined. It sounds like a very large amount of territory in question. But even it was a tiny area it needs to be correct. If it is not correct now, correct it, with profuse apologies.

  • TOPDOG1

    North American citizens are no more than subjugated working stock to support a massive corporate police state. Like sheep’ only capable of loud but fierce bleating.Striped of civil and social liberties many have fled to Mexico to escape the repression and suppression in the North. The brave, fearless and valiant Mexican people are managing to resist and fight while their cowardly counterparts and copsuckers in the U.S. are hiding under the bed. The next Alamo could be fought at the Canada border. Mexico is very rapidly evolving into a modern forward directed nation while the Authoritarian U.S. continues to regress into a repressed third world status.

  • Jason Lewis

    We have millions of your people too. Can you please reclaim them?

    • Nelson Lopez Armas

      I agree

      • juan

        As always, you don’t like America or the USA then leave! no one is making you stay there and get my tax money for free. Try to get it in Mexico… see how that works out for them. The original immigrants spoke english and became AMERICANS not mexican-americans, afro-americans-, and alll the other cans around. learn the language contribute to my country and respect my laws as an
        American citizen and then you can complain. But don’t tell me how fu…. up my country is when yours is worse

  • American Tax Payer

    Lookin’ for Mexicans to argue with. Anyone here?

  • William P. Kreml

    Amigo, You can have every inch of that land that is now in Texas. Everyone who is interested in this issue must read Abraham Lincoln’s speech attacking James Knox Polk and the start of the Mexican War. The issue was the location of the border, Lincoln pointing out that it was NOT the Rio Grande, as Polk claimed. But after the Alamo, we had San Jacinto and the defeat of Santa Anna. I appreciate the contributions of those who have come before me, they clearly being knowledgeable about the later history. But the big chunk was taken in the Mexican War, which Bobby Kennedy suggested was not a war the United States should be particularly proud of. I agree.

  • RHG

    This man is not a “Mexican” it’s obvious his bloodline is European and no doubt Spanish. He’s a Spanish imperialist using Mexico and Mexican people for his own selfish imperialist pursuits which are American land and American money.

  • RHG

    Hey Senator Spanish Martinez, how many indigenous people did your ancestors kill off in pursuit of their greed?

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